Burned by the game industry?
category: offtopic [glöplog]
Group support time!
As I'm faced with doing such a late and sad corrective move (and perhaps setting an example of how not to manage your creative career ;), I suddenly find myself curious about whether any other demosceners have gotten suckered by the game industry in some similar fashion.. Stories anyone?
As I'm faced with doing such a late and sad corrective move (and perhaps setting an example of how not to manage your creative career ;), I suddenly find myself curious about whether any other demosceners have gotten suckered by the game industry in some similar fashion.. Stories anyone?
Well, I'd consider the thing RealNetworks did with Mr. Goodliving a major screwjob, considering that many of the employees would have been glad to buy out the studio, but instead they all got the shaft.
I know some people who've had some problems like this but I'll let them speak for themselves if they want to. The moral of the story: Always a written contract. Every single time. If there's a possibility that a substantial money will be involved, it's always worth having a lawyer look it over.
Quote:
"To game developers: Don't get screwed by your publisher"
- Triton
el-bee: seeing as _they_ don't have a written agreement on the use of your music, your case is pretty iron-clad.
I bet you could go to Apple and get them to pull it from the store if it went to that.
preacher: no doubt about it, but I'm sure the app would just be resubmitted without his music. The point here would be to keep it in the store, because as long as it sells with his content in it, he has a solid case. I mean, the case is still rock solid even if they did start selling a non-el-bee-version.
el-bee: collect sales numbers if you can. I can see this old report from 2009, so you should have a pretty good slump of money coming your way if you follow through on this (which you SHOULD!) - http://wireless.ign.com/articles/968/968433p1.html
el-bee: collect sales numbers if you can. I can see this old report from 2009, so you should have a pretty good slump of money coming your way if you follow through on this (which you SHOULD!) - http://wireless.ign.com/articles/968/968433p1.html
Things sometimes happen to "discoveries" discussed in various code-threads - I can't of course proof that - but some recent papers and talks seem to be "influenced" - for suspicious examples ask me in private - it's not so hard to figure out how to reach me.
That's maybe why displayhack could become a good choice to release your discoveries.
That's maybe why displayhack could become a good choice to release your discoveries.
It's interesting that the last news on Apex Designs website is this:
Probably totally unrelated, but coincidential nonetheless!
Quote:
[18 July 2011] Payback Soundtrack Listing
We've had quite a few requests for the full soundtrack listing from the game - so here it is.
Probably totally unrelated, but coincidential nonetheless!
Yeah those "industries" (game-i, software-i and probably every other "industry") are really wrong and evil.
I personally have been extremely burned by Google Inc.
But I am striking back in a super-total fashion.
I personally have been extremely burned by Google Inc.
But I am striking back in a super-total fashion.
For a moment I was thinking maybe I was a bit off with the thread topic.. Should be moreover "getting burned by being a naive idiot", but better keep it narrowed down here ;)
gloom: Well i did allow usage by confirming it via email as I was told everyone else is doing it for nothing. Not that I've been in contact with the other artist involved. Anyway, to me, email sort of sounds like something "written", though not exactly in a contract form.
Then again, knowing that additional versions were never discussed it annoys me to high heaven not even being told about such being under the works. Back in 2006 I didn't think a GP2X game would ever sell anything worthwhile and thus felt like helping out James to do his thing in exchange for a few odd copies of the game. You know, thinking maybe some of that "love" would flow back my way in the future IF..
Too bad that things turned out to all this "I've put so and so many years to developing, you're not getting anything" yadda yadda. As if eg. all the work the musicians have put to acquiring their skills that allowed Payback to earn its excellent soundtrack ratings are a "flick-of-a-switch no-dev-time-spent" thing!
But, returning to things I SHOULD do about this, well, there aren't really much. As sad as it is "following through" happens to consist solely of moralizing email. Boohoo, so scary ;). With Littlest Bitchard about two months away now, you can bet I have plenty of other, more higher priority things on my mind than eg. dropping by Oxford for a "Hello, how are you" visit.
Anyway, stories?
gloom: Well i did allow usage by confirming it via email as I was told everyone else is doing it for nothing. Not that I've been in contact with the other artist involved. Anyway, to me, email sort of sounds like something "written", though not exactly in a contract form.
Then again, knowing that additional versions were never discussed it annoys me to high heaven not even being told about such being under the works. Back in 2006 I didn't think a GP2X game would ever sell anything worthwhile and thus felt like helping out James to do his thing in exchange for a few odd copies of the game. You know, thinking maybe some of that "love" would flow back my way in the future IF..
Too bad that things turned out to all this "I've put so and so many years to developing, you're not getting anything" yadda yadda. As if eg. all the work the musicians have put to acquiring their skills that allowed Payback to earn its excellent soundtrack ratings are a "flick-of-a-switch no-dev-time-spent" thing!
But, returning to things I SHOULD do about this, well, there aren't really much. As sad as it is "following through" happens to consist solely of moralizing email. Boohoo, so scary ;). With Littlest Bitchard about two months away now, you can bet I have plenty of other, more higher priority things on my mind than eg. dropping by Oxford for a "Hello, how are you" visit.
Anyway, stories?
LB: maybe just pouet is just not the appropiate forum... meaning, we do support you, but you'd be better off writing this on a crowded game-dev forum, or maybe write an article for gamasutra (don't know how easy would it be to get published there though), or any other gamedev-related forum.
It'd probably get some attention to this James' guy, and would probably refrain others from being that naive.
I have had similar stories in other fields, not specifically gamedev or music related... but basically being asked for favours for free since "they were starting", and after working my ass off for free, and help them succeed, getting forgotten shortly after. And I'd love to say it was a thing in my twenties, and I had learned the lesson... but it happened to me 6 months ago AGAIN.
Guess there are some lessons that you never learn :-)
It'd probably get some attention to this James' guy, and would probably refrain others from being that naive.
I have had similar stories in other fields, not specifically gamedev or music related... but basically being asked for favours for free since "they were starting", and after working my ass off for free, and help them succeed, getting forgotten shortly after. And I'd love to say it was a thing in my twenties, and I had learned the lesson... but it happened to me 6 months ago AGAIN.
Guess there are some lessons that you never learn :-)
Visy: But some of the guys did have the cojones to start a new company from the ashes. I like this spirit a lot, a Real(tm) game move, one might say ;)
Las: Sounds familiar.. I usually think it's better try putting your views, concepts and such someplace public online, from where they can be possibly put into historical context.
Vibrator: Care to publicly share details about your Google thingie?
Jcl: Definitely not among the most appropriate, for sure. And I got a bit carried away explaining this and that with my previous post as I was writing a somewhat "heated" mail to James at the same time. Indeed, there are some lessons you never seem to learn :)
Las: Sounds familiar.. I usually think it's better try putting your views, concepts and such someplace public online, from where they can be possibly put into historical context.
Vibrator: Care to publicly share details about your Google thingie?
Jcl: Definitely not among the most appropriate, for sure. And I got a bit carried away explaining this and that with my previous post as I was writing a somewhat "heated" mail to James at the same time. Indeed, there are some lessons you never seem to learn :)
el-bee: if you care to share a copy of that mail (or mail-exchange if you will), I can take a look at it. I have some experience in these matters ;)
(and by "share", I mean: mail it to me, not post it here)
if all else fails... we should fling poo at their office!
I suppose whoever worked at GRIN at the time might have some stories.
Faxing the code? Am I reading Onion news or something?
Gloom: Yeah why not, I might need a while to dig through the archives though
Gargaj: Heh was just reading about that, the fax thing is funny. I would've probably played along and figured some silly way to fax code/music.. Just for the fun of it :)
Gargaj: Heh was just reading about that, the fax thing is funny. I would've probably played along and figured some silly way to fax code/music.. Just for the fun of it :)
Gotta admit that talking with the guy, I occasionally find it amusing how clueless someone working in the game industry can be about common practises..
In terms of GRIN, that has to suck -- to know they don't really want you at all and are just messing with you to get you to fall.
..and apparently James' idea of a "mutually beneficial deal" is to have a separate page containing links to web pages of contributing artists.. Except for the fact that as it is now, the page actually links only to a single artist (Cynic Guru).. Nice to see at least someone is getting their "benefit".
Gloom: Yeah easy to imagine how a frustrating situation that must be.
Gloom: Yeah easy to imagine how a frustrating situation that must be.
el-bee: was the phrase "mutually beneficial" used in your correspondance?