pouët.net

superplek information 2309 glöps

• general:
• level: user
• personal:
• first name: -
• last name: -
• cdcs:
• cdc #1: Teddybear's Revenge by Eclipse [web]
• cdc #2: The nonstop Ibiza experience by orange
• cdc #3: burra by Aardbei [web]
• cdc #4: Hyperventilation by Byterapers [web]
• cdc #5: mechasm by Fairlight [web]
• cdc #6: gaia - poetry of life by Marquee Design [web]

• intro Windows The End (endtro) by Class
• Quote:

  
  Why don't you think I've reflected on this? Do you think you know me? If there's anything I have that you want I'd be happy to share it with you (but if I'd just let you Take everything it wouldn't be denying of ownership just redistribution of it, no?). I don't think our life styles are much alike but I try to live after my ideals as much as I can, just as you seem to do.

  
  
  I think they might just be surprisingly likewise. And even though I'm not some kind of tree-hugging hippie, this does not imply that I'm not willing to share. Hell, any idea where tax payments go these days? ;)
  
  
  Quote:

  
  ... but I believe it's this economical system you're refering to who should take the blame for this problem ...
  

  
  
  Exactly. It wasn't designed after nowadays technology, and alas, there is no one to blame for that.
  
  
  Quote:

  
  Im sorry but I see things totally the other way around. The true art is to live without any limitations, it's not a crime to deny the system and philosophing and whining all day is alot more constructive then killing of and hurting eachother with wars and prisons. I've never claimed to be an intellectual and my belief is that it's You who is ignoring the environment ("you cant own land and you cant eat money"). And what hard work is it that you're refering to that you do? Are you helping progression anything by holding on to your medieval values? Are you politicaly active? Are you really trying to change society or are you just holding on as hard as you can to your DVD:s and your 12":s and your money?

  
  
  Sure, it's perfectly legal to "whine" all day long; luckily this freedom is still left intact. Besides all that, I tend to think that life is about making the best out of it for yourself (this does not exclude supporting other people and their goals), and the way I see it, disobedience in the form of piracy is not exactly one of the things I respect in people when it comes to the will to provoke progression. Maybe I'm medieval and retarded, but I was raised in this society and even though I am open to discussion and new views, certain things have been engraved in my own system and violation of these values have an impact that goes beyond that what is controllable by thought. Try discussing progressive points of view with elderly people to get an idea of this phenomenon in a nutshell..
  
  
  Quote:

  You're just reciting the law, what is the fundamental difference?
  

  
  
  The fundamental difference is that these people don't have access to the same entertainment product after they left my premises. They'd have to buy it, and pay for it. Or just ask me for a copy, *grin* :)
  
  
  Quote:

  
  .. socialism, communism ..
  

  
  
  We're still waiting for the first successful variant of these systems; in the past all of them have been overshadowed by human egoism. Balance of power is often lost in these systems.
  
  
  Quote:

  
  .. anarchism, technocratism ..
  

  
  
  The latter appeals to me quite a bit. The first term makes me shiver; I do not believe in all *laws*, but I do believe in *law*. People have to be controlled and regulated at least a bit, denying this would imply denial of the, not always as charming, human nature. And nature in general, really.
  
  
  Quote:

  
  .. religion ..
  

  
  
  I personally don't condemn religious people, but I think religion has had it's best time by now.
  
  
  Quote:

  
  .. or just try to start caring a little bit more about people and a little bit less about profit? ..
  

  
  
  I personally care about my (and therefore implicitly about others) happiness more than "profit". Remember that profit is also something one shares. Apart from material issues most personal joy comes from interaction with other human beings; in order for this to be satisfactory, others need to be satisfied too. I'm not a capitalist errand-boy, something most of you like to think, I'm just not that negative about things that aren't directly progressive.
  
  
• isokadded on the 2004-01-21 09:15:40
• demo Commodore 64 You Know The Routine by Camelot [web]
• just thumbing this up in order not to break the tradition :) - and it's probably good.
• rulezadded on the 2004-01-21 08:29:45
• intro Windows The End (endtro) by Class
• Quote:

  i don't support mass-scale pirating, this one IS hurting general creativity and especially mainstream multimedia bizness : but blame P2P networks, not the crackers! Cracking is an art. Commercialism tends to kill or impoverish Art. Chase and sentence all the people *selling* warez or mass-duplicating it.

  
  
  That's quite accurate, yeah.
  
  Oh and, uhm, does anyone here have a viable idea about how human society should function? If there's a replacement for this web of rules and monetary-egocentrism, tell the world about it. It wouldn't hurt.
• isokadded on the 2004-01-21 08:11:52
• intro Windows The End (endtro) by Class
• Quote:

  
  "well, plek, you can be sure i won't let your words on me just be like that. just because you happen to speak better english than some of us, and happen to work in some whatever software developement company, you think you can consider yourself clever? you worthless little nu-media geek yuppie, i wouldn't even bother to reply if it wasn't for your talent to insult people."
  

  
  
  I insult people yes. And it seems to work, which is to my liking. Something that does not seem to come through to your thick skull is that my background has little to do with my less than lenient views on theft.
  
  
  Quote:

  
  i can write you a whole essay based on ethiics and culture theory to prove my standpoint from a scientific point of view, and the only points you have are like "i'm so afraid to lose my money" and "my mother always told me that people breaking law are evil murderers"... yeah yeah, and she assumingly also buys the clothes for you and does your hair.
  

  
  
  You don't seem to do much more than telling everyone about the miraculous competence you're hiding inside? I'd suggest you'd come up with a few solid arguments then, instead of countering the completely valid comparison between theft and murder for both being a very generic phenomenon in a childish way that does not invalidate it by far.
  
  
  Quote:

  
  and, last not least, the least thing i'm promoting is to encourage the involvement of EVERY demoscene member in piracy. i'm not intending stuff like "every real scener must have been a pirate" or anything like that. everyone should act according to his own values. but if certain sceners condemn the scene's roots in such a fraudulent way, then something is differently wrong.
  

  
  
  I do not condemn this subculture's root. You must understand that I definately see the charms of the "warez" culture back in those years; and the rather low availability of software indeed was quite an argument in favor of it. It was small, and the impact that they had was nowhere near dangerous. These days, this "warez" culture has brought us kids with complete arrays of CD/DVD writers, kids constantly busy ripping DVD's, CD's and other media and spreading it on a large scale without realizing that what they are doing is not only illegal and far beyond any definition of fair, but it has little to do with that small charming "warez" thing there was long ago *you* are referring to. I really think you should re-evaluate things and maybe conclude that the charm is largely overwhelmed by it's size and it's
  agressive nature.
  
  
  Quote:

  
  if the count of such scene misfits like plek will form a majority, the demoscene WILL BE DEAD, at least as a part of the oldest computer-based subculture. it will be some nu-media community like there are x-amount of others... well, anyway, i definitely dont have time to go on further (since i'm definitely not the low-life workless jerk plek wants me to look like), so, i'd say, if plek is willing to continue this discussion on a higher level (no, NOT by beating eachother up), he's welcome to meet me at breakpoint and explain to me his theory of cutting off a subculture's roots. but i bet he neither has the guts nor the skills to do so, and his only argument is his primary fear of losing his job, and some ethics he doesn't question but just takes them as they are.
  

  
  
  So just because I hold on to quite common values, I am a misfit? I believe daily reality prescribes the exact inverse, but that hurts, doesn't it? I'm getting a little tired of psuedo-intellectuals like you, placing yourself on a platform on behalf of arguments that don't show a clear sense of reality. Really, I don't care about what you do and how you do it, and I'm not exactly afraid of losing any kind of job. And yes, I'd be more than glad to have a discussion at BP about this, perhaps that way would allow me to show you that my vision goes beyond good or bad, beyond "these guys are bad" and "my mother told me to read the bible and earn my own living", even though it does not directly approve of piracy.
  
  
  Quote:

  better keep your mouth shut and don't make a bigger fool out of yourself than you already are.

  
  
  I'm not impressed by your foul language; it doesn't make you look very smart. But hey, it impresses a few dumb sceners.
  
  
  Quote:

  
  Oh well that's great, let's go back another few centuries shall we and see how this "ownage" was founded. The stone-age man who would just bluntly kill everyone who "trespassed" and tried to "steal" "his" land.. The concept of human propirty is something that solely comes out of the barrel of a gun. The great thing about "information" is that it doesnt obey the laws of physics but can exist in many forms on several different places at the same time, hence i dont even consider copying information theft.
  

  
  
  So, basically, you wouldn't care less if I dropped by your house and took everything you had? Take a minute to reflect on reality. Yes, reality. Ideals are nice, but if I stole your car, really, you wouldn't approve of it. I guess that takes care of your abstract babble that basically comes down to denying the concept of ownership (yes, it's written *that* way). Still, I've heard about this difference between reproduction that does not imply a loss of the original and classic theft right now, but I have not heard about the following:
  
  A large game title, for example, requires many millions to be invested in order to be produced. We're talking actual *people* like you and me who have to be paid (in order to eat, since they can't blatantly "copy" a bread), we're talking one or more offices to host these people, we're talking hardware that can't just be "copied".. Doesn't that at least make you think for a split second? We're dealing with ordinary products and services here, but for some reason, entertainment products like these do not deserve to exist? If it were for you, music, movies, games and other software would have to disappear in it's current form. This purely because you don't respect the right of the producer to sell his product. Losless reproduction of goods indeed introduces quite a problem regarding our current economical system though.
  
  
  Quote:

  People should ofcourse be able to live. But how about the poor artist, the homeless man or the starving farmer in china? Do they not have the equal right to make a living as you do? The reason you cant always make a living out of what you want is not that kids are freely sharing the information you "produced" but the fact that you are born as a slave under society and are not allowed to make your own decisions.

  
  
  The true art is to live with the given limitations. I don't see it as a crime to fit into the system a little, instead of philosophing and whining all day about how things are morally wrong, and that you can't wait for evolution to clean up this mess. I'm getting tired of these so-called intellectuals (because really, you guys aren't that as smart as you'd like to think) who keep ignoring their environment. Progression is reached through hard work, not through sitting around and whining about the reality that surrounds you.
  
  
  Quote:

  
  So what your saying is that you're allowed to copy as much as you can actually memorize in your head? Then how about reading a book for your children? Neither you or them can memorize the whole book yet you're the only one paying for it.
  

  
  
  Not an argument in any kind of way. Reading a book's content out loud is perfectly legal according to the user's license you implicitly agree with at the time you buy a book. You can also watch a movie you bought with a few friends, or listen to that new CD. This is proper use of the product, and does infringe the producer's right since no value is lost.
  
  
  Quote:

  have you ever nightmared about a world without any free/pirated software and information ? in my opinion that would induce less universal knowledge, less amateur creativity and a poor cultural world based only on money, selfishness and total consumerism (buy and consume! Amen)... besides *real* deaths of all the scenes we love.

  
  
  Yeah I agree. It's just the scale of the activities that I do *not* agree with. Oh and by the way, I always pay for my DVD's, my games and my 12"'s; this does not limit me in any kind of way. I do, illegaly, use some software every now and then and indeed, I think that on a reasonable non-profit scale, this isn't that much of a problem. But! It is *not* correct.
  
  Oh and "maktone", I'm not going to answer any more of your incoherent rants. I hope you're happy with yourself, and hopefully a little aging will do the trick for you. I fail to see why I am fulfilled with greed.
  
  
• isokadded on the 2004-01-21 07:54:08
• intro Windows The End (endtro) by Class
• Wain: You've shown your incapability in a sufficient manner by now; you may now leave.
  
• isokadded on the 2004-01-20 23:33:59
• intro Windows The End (endtro) by Class
• It's not about "my software", for the third time now; and it's not just about software. That third point does not really make any sense at all really, more profit means better (financial) prospects for the future.
  
  About the second part of your rant; you might just be right about it being a good approach to evade piracy (I still don't see your argument why it would make it any better though..), but I really guess you're bypassing the fact that service, support (two things often seen as the 'forte' of the open-source model) and online facilities are only viable to a certain extent, when it comes to the offering of entertainment products; and then I haven't even considered the actual meaning of an entertainment product yet. The productions costs and income generated through sales simply can not be replaced by additional service. As soon as the service loses the additional aspect, you're not selling a standalone entertainment product; which is pretty important.
  
• isokadded on the 2004-01-20 23:32:49
• intro Atari ST TS3 by The Beasts Crew [web]
• bad taste is back in town :)
  
• rulezadded on the 2004-01-20 23:15:44
• intro Windows The End (endtro) by Class
• Quote:

  
  I think having this kind of discussions here is totally redundant, especially in the comments for an executable that does just not deserve to be called demo or intro.
  

  
  
  It's "these kinds of discussions" for starters, and we can make that decision for ourselves, thank you.
  
• isokadded on the 2004-01-20 22:58:48
• intro Windows The End (endtro) by Class
• i'm just getting tired of kids (or older jobless hangarounds) who havent seen the ways of the world yet ;)
  
  by the way, "maktone", i'll tell you a secret: it's actually possible to overthink your opinion before bringing it in a *normal* way :)
  
• isokadded on the 2004-01-20 22:55:52
• intro Windows The End (endtro) by Class
• Quote:

  
  plek, i guess u would eat shit for money..
  

  
  
  Luckily, I can make a living another way.
  
  
  Quote:

  
  there is other stuff in life except money!!
  

  
  
  I must certainly think so, yes.
  
  
  Quote:

  
  but if it was possible to do as jesus did with the bread and wine..
  

  
  
  Tell me, you religious son of a bitch (just making assumptions based on nothing.. I'm from the U S of A, right?), what *did* "Jesus" do with the bread and the wine?
  
  
  Quote:

  
  i don't c what the problem is for the bakery.. nothing gets erased by copying something..
  

  
  
  The whole idea is that you are profiting from a product that has been made by people who have to earn a living and other resources that can not just "be copied". It's how the system works these days; when using an argument like that, I could advise you to think about possible consequences first. But hey, you're probably too elite for that, right? Products come in various ways; a bread, a cab ride, an attorney's services, a pack of batteries, a piece of software, some music..
  
  
  Quote:

  
  i bet u are from the us? told from early age, the more money u have the more successfull you are.. bullshit!!
  

  
  
  I'm Dutch, and people didn't talk about money all that much actually.
  
  
  Quote:

  
  and laws? there is no law... laws are there to be broken..
  

  
  
  There is *no* law? Uhm, so, basically, I could walk out of the door and shoot someone through the head? I could go for a drive in my neighbour's car? I could hit someone to the back of his head with a stick and rape his wife? That's great to hear man. Thanks.
  
  
  Quote:

  
  my god.. haha you are pathetic :)
  

  
  
  Invert that and you'll be closer to the truth, son. (<- Note the sarcasm, you might not spot it.)
  
  
  Quote:

  
  my point was that just because something is outlawed doesnt mean it's "wrong"
  

  
  
  Oh sure, I agree. You don't seem to understand the whole point behind (economical) regulation and systems though, but that's okay. Besides this,
  
  
  Quote:

  
  like maktone said "laws are there to be broken", how else are we going to progress? :)
  

  
  
  In the many centuries that have passed, theft of a production funded or owned (through whatever means possible) by someone else remains outlawed. And that is for a reason; you shall not take what is not yours; the ease of doing it anyway is no argument in favor of this.
  
  
  Quote:

  the production of information is not the information itself. if i steal bread from a baker then his/her production itself is lost. but if i, as you put it, "steal" his or her information by copying it, there's never really any work lost.
  

  
  
  The production, or "information" as you put it, is not yours to be utilized without paying up to compensate the investments that have been made in order to produce it. When will you guys learn that software development, just like making movies and producing music, is *not* free, and is a product people sell in order to make a living off.
  
  
  Quote:

  
  if you tell children a story and they then tell it to their own children when they grow up, is that piracy too?

  
  
  Things such as stories are and can certainly become cultural posession. If you could play a game, memorized it, and reproduced it yourself (and by that I mean by yourself, not by taking an original copy and copying it), that would be perfectly legal. The same goes for stories you might have memorized.
  This is not against any laws. It would be against the law to make money through something produced in this manner; but only in countries where there might be a patent pending on the intellectual good.
  But we're dealing with something fundamentally different here.
  
  Do your homework before trying to make a smart point.
  
  
  Quote:

  
  didnt see the intro yet but i must say.. dipswitch has leading.
  plek+kusma+whomever: you suck.
  

  
  How *sad* PS, you turn out to be the derailed hippie I thought you were. The only thing Dip & Co. "have leading in" is clear intellectual discapability. I've had a *lot* of discussion on this topic on several other occasions, and I've heard a shitload of arguments that made more sense on their own than what you guys have been uttering here alltogether. Please, *think* before you speak, and evaluate the impact that your arguments would have on the practical situation as it is.
  
  But hey, you're dumb derailed shortsighted fucks alltogether, that's what this doomed (according to Mr. Intellect 2004 Dipswitch) subculture is about, right?
  
  
• isokadded on the 2004-01-20 22:46:23