Science and art [poser in demos]
category: general [glöplog]
I must be off-topic too, because I first read violator's message and then the whole thread ;)
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An evening some days ago, I was so unhappy that the CPC I bought from ebay.de had a diferrent drive connector (something from Centronics) because it was a Schneider manufactured. So,. I couldn't connect a 3,5" drive on it (or I had to find diferrent schemes and I am not good at electronics at all :P) and kept playing some old games from 3" disks that came with. But I wanted to watch some demos, especially the special ones because I am lucky that it has a CRTC0. So,. I made the evil thought to load a demo in the emulator, open the HEX window and copy the HEX values from there in a CPC, one by one, in a Basic programm with DATA command. And then save it and call at it's address. But I was dead after the 1st kbyte and so I quitted. Then, I decided to write a little programm where I could type hex codes fast in an INPUT line or type some chars like O or R or S or L, to change org address, run, save or load and I kept writting hex codes by watching an Z80 opcode list and writting something small as a test and it worked. It was something like a shitty debugger. But my future wish would be to expand it into a small assembler, coded in basic, jff,. so that I can make a use of the CPC in case I don't plug a drive on it (It's a good CRTC0 and I am afraid to break it, however at that time I was so angry that I almost smashed some plastic near it's drive port with the soldering tool!). So, perhaps I will live that project and make something for TUM,... which I won't make thought because time is so few and I hate deadlines, and I just have to better be cool and stay alive, so.. but it was fun to code my first HEX and a HEX writer in Basic on the CPC :)
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that's out of subject too, but who cares :P
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An evening some days ago, I was so unhappy that the CPC I bought from ebay.de had a diferrent drive connector (something from Centronics) because it was a Schneider manufactured. So,. I couldn't connect a 3,5" drive on it (or I had to find diferrent schemes and I am not good at electronics at all :P) and kept playing some old games from 3" disks that came with. But I wanted to watch some demos, especially the special ones because I am lucky that it has a CRTC0. So,. I made the evil thought to load a demo in the emulator, open the HEX window and copy the HEX values from there in a CPC, one by one, in a Basic programm with DATA command. And then save it and call at it's address. But I was dead after the 1st kbyte and so I quitted. Then, I decided to write a little programm where I could type hex codes fast in an INPUT line or type some chars like O or R or S or L, to change org address, run, save or load and I kept writting hex codes by watching an Z80 opcode list and writting something small as a test and it worked. It was something like a shitty debugger. But my future wish would be to expand it into a small assembler, coded in basic, jff,. so that I can make a use of the CPC in case I don't plug a drive on it (It's a good CRTC0 and I am afraid to break it, however at that time I was so angry that I almost smashed some plastic near it's drive port with the soldering tool!). So, perhaps I will live that project and make something for TUM,... which I won't make thought because time is so few and I hate deadlines, and I just have to better be cool and stay alive, so.. but it was fun to code my first HEX and a HEX writer in Basic on the CPC :)
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that's out of subject too, but who cares :P
Then, I (almost?) succesfully copied a 512byte little programm which displayed steady rastersplits in Winape32 to the CPC hex by hex, and in my fear discovered that the rastersplits look very diferrent on the real CPC than the emulator (and any emulators I think, because another test is beeing displayed diferrent at each emulator). Which suxx and I can't be sure about developing a small demo I was working with lately. (Uses rastersplits to expand a b&w background at the borders too. I could better make it in overscan perhaps, but I am proud for syncing my first splitrasters to waste that piece of code =)
Yesterday, I also tested my Schneider printer I got along with the CPC for 45euros (and 2 Joysticks and few more). I have never used a print on CPC before. Fortunatelly a basic programm inside one disk, printed lines and I found out how to use it. I was so extatic and laughing while printing things like "You are gay!" or "I am an asshole.." in a piece of random paper at diferrent angles and the printer making obscure noises that made my neighbours worry about me! (I guess..)
Yesterday, I also tested my Schneider printer I got along with the CPC for 45euros (and 2 Joysticks and few more). I have never used a print on CPC before. Fortunatelly a basic programm inside one disk, printed lines and I found out how to use it. I was so extatic and laughing while printing things like "You are gay!" or "I am an asshole.." in a piece of random paper at diferrent angles and the printer making obscure noises that made my neighbours worry about me! (I guess..)
These texts looks like Shanethewolf's parodies :)
:)
but i couldn't find the embedded secret messages :(
why do the threads have different topics when they all end up being about optimus personal life?
4-year old girl turns her eyes away from the blue-ish monitor and towards the camera with a calm face that surprisingly makes you feel *very* frightened... She just says:
"He's baaaaack....."
"He's baaaaack....."
Well, I'm not really into the "everything is art" stuff. Andy Warhol is a good example, he tried to explain that there's no difference between an industrial product and a piece of art. But that's bullshit!
At Dialogos 2001, we were walking in the city of Jena, and found some "modern" sculptures, basically tons of junk metal welded together to form nothing. I then said: "Well, if this is art... then if my dog shits on the pavement, that's art too. Because it's unique and not reproducible. It is something unexpected, an expression of natural forces themselves. Besides, it's crime art. I can be fined for it."
Poser is NOT art. Poser is a way to manufacture models, a way to display something that someone else modelled. Regardless if you say "shut up", this is my opinion, as a 3D modeller. Any stupid asshole can drag&drop a model in Poser, and there, art. Is it? No, fuck.
At Dialogos 2001, we were walking in the city of Jena, and found some "modern" sculptures, basically tons of junk metal welded together to form nothing. I then said: "Well, if this is art... then if my dog shits on the pavement, that's art too. Because it's unique and not reproducible. It is something unexpected, an expression of natural forces themselves. Besides, it's crime art. I can be fined for it."
Poser is NOT art. Poser is a way to manufacture models, a way to display something that someone else modelled. Regardless if you say "shut up", this is my opinion, as a 3D modeller. Any stupid asshole can drag&drop a model in Poser, and there, art. Is it? No, fuck.
oh shut up
I agree with Tomcat. Poser is not art, or if it is, it's just "copy/paste" art. Wow!
Maybe Poser itself isn't art, but it still might be possible to do something artistic *with* Poser.
Yeah, it's possible, but they barely do.
Why bother modelling a human when Poser does it for you? That's just extra work for no point. Or is it to do with honour or something?
Probably for the same reason that push people to sculpt, paint, draw, compose, code, ... by themselves : for learning purpose and to put their own touch and some personnality/style in their creations. The sort of thing a "one click" program can't bring.
The idea in Poser is to have a package that provides an artist (or a "content creator") with the tools needed to digitally reproduce a human form. I think most people who easily berate Poser or any other abstract tools - opposed to low-level editing tools - are seeing the literal act of showing, in this case, the human form as art. If it is done with the aid of an abstract set of tools, it does not have enough hard work involved.
However, seeing artistic value only in the technical act of showing the human form itself is indeed very limited. The aesthetics work through the whole composition, expression and potential meaning involved. I don't see a problem in creating art with Poser or any other set of tools, if the finished work is something else than just the technical act.
Even if this is a bit blatant comparison, think of cinema: the director creates artistic visions that involve, in the process of creation, controlling actors the right way, setting the scene in an appropriate manner - and everything else that we see in the final, still further edited work. The director works very closely with other people and technologies that are, over the years, designed to make the workflow as smooth as possible from the viewpoint of creating motion picture art.
Going back to Poser. The idea is to smoothen the workflow needed to produce a digital piece of art that uses a graphic human body as _material_. A piece of art that has other aesthetics than merely the technical act.
Poser provides the actor(s), but a work of art needs something more. Nevertheless, if one says that using Poser is, by definition, never art - one has really not given it much thought.
However, seeing artistic value only in the technical act of showing the human form itself is indeed very limited. The aesthetics work through the whole composition, expression and potential meaning involved. I don't see a problem in creating art with Poser or any other set of tools, if the finished work is something else than just the technical act.
Even if this is a bit blatant comparison, think of cinema: the director creates artistic visions that involve, in the process of creation, controlling actors the right way, setting the scene in an appropriate manner - and everything else that we see in the final, still further edited work. The director works very closely with other people and technologies that are, over the years, designed to make the workflow as smooth as possible from the viewpoint of creating motion picture art.
Going back to Poser. The idea is to smoothen the workflow needed to produce a digital piece of art that uses a graphic human body as _material_. A piece of art that has other aesthetics than merely the technical act.
Poser provides the actor(s), but a work of art needs something more. Nevertheless, if one says that using Poser is, by definition, never art - one has really not given it much thought.
guys, it's not the tools you use but what you make out of it. i'd guess if i did 3d modelling and were to model human bodies, poser would be of great help for starters: just create a 'standard poser body' and continue working from there, adding your own personal touch.
this conversation reminds me a bit of old sample ripping discussions in the bbs era. musicians should've used just their own samples but still everyone ripped samples - even the most famous and best musicians. and somehow, it wasn't the samples that made the modules sound cool but the skills of the musician.
bottom line (like someone said already): use whatever you use, just give credits where you've used external resources. btw. i haven't even seen yet a cool demo with poser models so what's the big fuzz anyways? :)
this conversation reminds me a bit of old sample ripping discussions in the bbs era. musicians should've used just their own samples but still everyone ripped samples - even the most famous and best musicians. and somehow, it wasn't the samples that made the modules sound cool but the skills of the musician.
bottom line (like someone said already): use whatever you use, just give credits where you've used external resources. btw. i haven't even seen yet a cool demo with poser models so what's the big fuzz anyways? :)
I have to add a sentence here, which was quite often yelled at Hungarian parties' gfx compos several years ago:
"Ez nem művészet bazmeg, ez fotosop!!"
translated as:
"This is not art, fuck you, this is photoshop!"...
"Ez nem művészet bazmeg, ez fotosop!!"
translated as:
"This is not art, fuck you, this is photoshop!"...
foolman: whereas a similar finnish saying is "Naisen pää!", translated as "a womans head!". Naturally about 50% of gfx-compo entries received this shout...
Several years ago, I understand the complaints about Photoshop but Photoshop have not lowered the creativity of the 2D graphists in contrary to Poser ( till now ) which the "3D graphists" use to pick a model and leave it as is.
I wouldn't mind to see Poser in the list of tools used to create a great demo having nice and original models. But I've seen no one so far.
I wouldn't mind to see Poser in the list of tools used to create a great demo having nice and original models. But I've seen no one so far.
How did this thread become about art? I don't think I mentioned anything about art?
the topic title is "Science and art [poser in demos]"...
*poof
... never mind.
*poof*
... never mind.
*poof*
foot--in-mouth disease
If you put people's feet in your mouth you deserve to catch a disease. No offence that's just my opinion.
Hum... Patrick Groove, you should also re-read your/the first post ;)