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How to run a demoparty during a pandemic

category: residue [glöplog]
Some educational material, why only allowing vaccinated individuals to gather (like during a demo party) is helpful; since it is needed:

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https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/12/science/covid-delta-breakthrough.html

Every party organizer, who excludes non-vaccinated individuals, is acting according to this logic, and thus following the ethical rule to keep endangering the participants of his party at the lowest level possible. That is not a "controversial" decision, it is the opposite: it protects the participants of the party against the acts of individuals with the controversial mindset of having the free choice to endanger others. Any attack against such party organizers has only the goal of discrediting ethical behavior, since their own self-interest is of higher value than the safety of the community they want to participate in. This character flaw alone disqualifies them to be a part of this community gathering, since they engage with the individuals of this community intentionally in a harmful way.
added on the 2021-08-15 14:07:54 by Salinga Salinga
Article is behind a paywall and probably refers to populations in general rather than limited-duration gatherings.

Quote:
thus following the ethical rule to keep endangering the participants of his party at the lowest level possible

The lowest level possible would be to implement all established standard measures simultaneously. Vaccination + tests + masks + physical distancing.

If it comes down to risks X = mandatory vaccination with optional tests vs. Y = mandatory tests with optional vaccination, i'm pretty sure you can come up with both X > Y and X < Y depending on various factors in a model (ratio of vaccinated people, ratio and frequency of tests taken, total number of people, floor space, volume of air, etc.).

Point being that only mandated vaccination may not pose lesser dangers than only mandated tests.
added on the 2021-08-15 14:41:11 by Krill Krill
what krill says is the exact point that I've tried to drive home in the deadline-thread. I'd like to add that testing seems to fare a lot better in regards to acceptance probably due to its non-invasive nature and practically non-existent risk for severe adverse effects.
added on the 2021-08-15 15:03:03 by LJ LJ
Krill, as pointed out several times already, asking for vaccination won't be our only safety measure, with the others being decided and announced shortly before the party. Testing will be one of these additional measures, most likely optional, but we'll see.

Thanks Salinga for your last post, I couldn't agree more.
added on the 2021-08-15 15:06:26 by v3nom v3nom
While it's mostly for me about making sure that nobody dies because they cought a potentially deadly virus at my party. I could not live with this.
added on the 2021-08-15 15:08:05 by v3nom v3nom
LJ this includes you. You may decide that you would take the rusk of going unvaccinated to a Demoparty, I don't want to. I rather see you one year later when herd immunity helped making it safe for everyone.
added on the 2021-08-15 15:10:06 by v3nom v3nom
Good that you bring up herd immunity.
The government whips are becoming increasingly silent on this.
For the proponents of natural immunization, of course, this is key.
added on the 2021-08-15 15:45:44 by bifat bifat
Bifat you can get your immunity the way you like to, but I want you to have one.
added on the 2021-08-15 15:49:08 by v3nom v3nom
(that means that we will treat people who had the virus and recovered from it like vaccinated people)
added on the 2021-08-15 15:54:00 by v3nom v3nom
Quote:
You may decide that you would take the rusk of going unvaccinated to a Demoparty

Thanks but in times like these I'm good with not attending any larger gatherings, especially not indoor ones during the winter months. Also it feels like some people here and elsewhere wouldn't want to see anyone who's not vaccinated ever again since everybody who's not vaccinated just gotta be a tinfoil-hat wearing conspiracist willingly putting society at danger until they've proven a medical reason exempting them from any mandate.

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that means that we will treat people who had the virus and recovered from it like vaccinated people

You might want to add that bit about accepting recovered people to the official party-thread, as so far you've been only talking about vaccinated ones. I think it would also be good to think about what the cutoff time since infection for recovered people, and likewise for vaccinated people is? Assume someone had covid in April 2020, are you still letting them in? What about people who got vaccinated among the first ones?

Cheers
added on the 2021-08-15 16:09:13 by LJ LJ
And the end of the story is: No party is the best party.
added on the 2021-08-15 16:12:53 by .. ..
Quote:
as pointed out several times already, asking for vaccination won't be our only safety measure[...]most likely optional
My conjecture explicitly assumed optional tests along with mandatory vaccination, though.
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While it's mostly for me about making sure that nobody dies because they cought a potentially deadly virus at my party. I could not live with this.
Understood. "Making sure" reads like zero risk, and that is a very strong goal. Vaccinated people have died of COVID (but yes, a lot fewer than unvaccinated people in the same time), so preventing infection in the first place seems more conducive than risk reduction in the case of infection (especially when taking indirect infection of unvaccinated people after the party into account). Even better would be both, still.
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one year later when herd immunity helped making it safe for everyone.
Herd immunity seems a longer way down the road, unfortunately.
added on the 2021-08-15 16:19:39 by Krill Krill
There won't be zero risk. But acceptable risk. And this is of course an individual decision. So orgas make their decision, be open about it and then visitors can make their informed decision and come or not come.
added on the 2021-08-15 16:28:22 by v3nom v3nom
Quote:
While it's mostly for me about making sure that nobody dies because they cought a potentially deadly virus at my party. I could not live with this.


What if someone vaccinates to come to deadline and then dies from a side effect of the vaccine?
added on the 2021-08-15 17:30:43 by remdy remdy
lol
added on the 2021-08-15 17:39:04 by okkie okkie
Okkie, please, calm down!
added on the 2021-08-15 17:40:29 by bitch bitch
no
added on the 2021-08-15 17:40:57 by okkie okkie
But think of the children!
added on the 2021-08-15 17:57:24 by bitch bitch
remdy, you mean from the "deathshot"?
luckily that risk is probably the same as getting struck by lightning. As already written, we all decide which risks to take and which we don't.
I'm happy to take this specific one.
added on the 2021-08-15 18:31:05 by v3nom v3nom
Safety is all about acceptable risk
added on the 2021-08-15 18:33:52 by w00t! w00t!
That's like being in a car crash on the way to Deadline and blaming v3nom for the crash, saying "This wouldn't have happened if Deadline was in Hamburg instead of in Berlin!!".
added on the 2021-08-15 18:43:31 by fizzer fizzer
Not exactly, because by not sticking to the country regulations and enforcing his own, v3nom ends up promoting the vaccine somehow.
added on the 2021-08-15 19:00:36 by remdy remdy
Quote:
Nosfe: I'd join. Not the toilet, but the party. Especially if heatwaves and fires by then have killed the damn mosquitos.


mosquito-wise it can be even worse than simulaatio, depends on time of the year and so on. but there are poisons and repellants to use
added on the 2021-08-15 19:05:21 by nosfe nosfe
Quote:
Not exactly, because by not sticking to the country regulations and enforcing his own, v3nom ends up promoting the vaccine somehow.


It's country regulations to host Deadline in Berlin?
added on the 2021-08-15 19:09:50 by fizzer fizzer
Not yet
added on the 2021-08-15 19:14:06 by LJ LJ

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