AI coding
category: residue [glöplog]
untracable: your vibecoded demo doesnt support animated textures! *rotating thumb down!*
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untracable: your vibecoded demo doesnt support animated textures! *rotating thumb down!*
Fixed!
see, you still need real human input!
Never said I didn't! Glad you liked it 😀
People love hating the technology when they actually just hate capitalism.
There is no ethical prompting under capitalism.
llms killed the demoscene star
The demoscene star still resists, judging by all the fuck AIs here, compared to other places.
Nobody wants to hear it, but I think AI can help coders get creative in the same way a musician uses samples and plugins to create. You just wanna hate on all things AI and I don't think that will ever be the answer. Finally maybe we have the urge and strength to implement all those things non-coders have been asking for every time you show them anything... how about a jumping dragon? that spits fire?
Yes I hate AI slop videos etc too, but if they are made with care you don't notice them and the content can be good stuff even if it's made with AI or not.
And as always- if you have fun making it...
Yes I hate AI slop videos etc too, but if they are made with care you don't notice them and the content can be good stuff even if it's made with AI or not.
And as always- if you have fun making it...
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There is no ethical prompting under capitalism.
hollowman I missed you!
fascinating that this continues to be the number one topic on pouet. but honestly, what darya says, evoke and deadline is thriving...
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lol, tell that to the newcomers who come and support our parties *because* of our based stance against AI.
Honest question: where does AI-assisted optimisation sit on the "fuck AI demos" scale?
For my next demo I built my own MCP-enabled emulator and AI-assisted toolchain. I write every effect myself in my own framework built on (C, Bartman's toolkit, GCC etc). GCC already does a huge amount of optimisation nobody calls cheating. My toolchain goes a step further as it looks at per-frame budget, DMA contention and timing, and works to do a machine-level pass rather than just a code-level one. I review every change and often direct them myself from the profiling results.
We already rely on libraries for heavily optimised code we didn't write, and nobody says that makes the demo less ours.
So what's the actual difference between a compiler, a third-party library and an AI pass? Is the objection about authorship, craft, or disclosure?
I've got plenty of skin in this demo - the toolchain and the demo have both taken ages. I'd just like to know where the line is for people.
For my next demo I built my own MCP-enabled emulator and AI-assisted toolchain. I write every effect myself in my own framework built on (C, Bartman's toolkit, GCC etc). GCC already does a huge amount of optimisation nobody calls cheating. My toolchain goes a step further as it looks at per-frame budget, DMA contention and timing, and works to do a machine-level pass rather than just a code-level one. I review every change and often direct them myself from the profiling results.
We already rely on libraries for heavily optimised code we didn't write, and nobody says that makes the demo less ours.
So what's the actual difference between a compiler, a third-party library and an AI pass? Is the objection about authorship, craft, or disclosure?
I've got plenty of skin in this demo - the toolchain and the demo have both taken ages. I'd just like to know where the line is for people.
It’s about the ethics, environmental damage, mental health damage, concentration of wealth, wholesale theft of the work of others for profit and general erosion of democracy to name a few.
If you don’t care about any of that stuff then by all means use AI.
And if you use AI, then be honest and upfront about it in your prod or nfo. People will probably still not like it, but at least you won’t be a liar.
If you don’t care about any of that stuff then by all means use AI.
And if you use AI, then be honest and upfront about it in your prod or nfo. People will probably still not like it, but at least you won’t be a liar.
Out of interest, as a thought experiment, none of the following is true and is just posed so I can better understand your view. Well the solar/battery part is true.
If it's an open model with open weights, using RAG (free or content I own) and fine tuning on my own rig at my house that uses solar power and a battery and is effectively carbon neutral. If it has nothing to do with the commerical arm and application of AI, and came from purely open research, what is the objection? If the model was free and open and owned by the same world it was trained on, where would the theft be? Surely the objection doesn't stem from copyright and intellectual property abuse. The irony of that in a scene environment would be amazing.
I share a lot of your concerns, but I'm not as convinced as you that I known the final outcome of the technology and its application to the world. The commoditisation and democratisation of knowledge has a lot of positive potential. The final outcome, like alway, is in the remit of people, and I don't believe anyone knows that outcome.
If it's an open model with open weights, using RAG (free or content I own) and fine tuning on my own rig at my house that uses solar power and a battery and is effectively carbon neutral. If it has nothing to do with the commerical arm and application of AI, and came from purely open research, what is the objection? If the model was free and open and owned by the same world it was trained on, where would the theft be? Surely the objection doesn't stem from copyright and intellectual property abuse. The irony of that in a scene environment would be amazing.
I share a lot of your concerns, but I'm not as convinced as you that I known the final outcome of the technology and its application to the world. The commoditisation and democratisation of knowledge has a lot of positive potential. The final outcome, like alway, is in the remit of people, and I don't believe anyone knows that outcome.
There’s no need to pivot this to final outcomes as the problems i listed are already here, and have been for some time now.
As for the hypothetical scenario… do you see the billion(s) of people already using tech-bro llms to having the capability to switch over to that hypothetical eco-friendly bespoke self-trained-from-the-ground-up model, knowing full well what most people use these for?
As it currently stands generative AI is a fascist technology and will be treated as such. If this sounds like hyperbole to you then you haven’t familiarized yourself wlth the landscape.
As for the hypothetical scenario… do you see the billion(s) of people already using tech-bro llms to having the capability to switch over to that hypothetical eco-friendly bespoke self-trained-from-the-ground-up model, knowing full well what most people use these for?
As it currently stands generative AI is a fascist technology and will be treated as such. If this sounds like hyperbole to you then you haven’t familiarized yourself wlth the landscape.
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As it currently stands generative AI is a fascist technology and will be treated as such.
How does one oppose it when its forced into our lives then? Like say if the doctor you see has a policy of scribing with AI. Should we avoid seeing medical professionals out of principle? To me, to have then a principled *proper* stand, that has to be the case?
Which to me, is a real case. Health professionals here often notetake without any sayso leaving me going "oooooh...." when it happens. It happens completely routine with them, here its standardised.
Seriously, I want to know where the line is drawn. I am sure we can all completely agree where the line is drawn with creative mediums such as with demos, but where is the line drawn when it comes out to actually living our lives on a daily basis? Should we avoid social groups or jobs that use AI in some form?
Because if it is a fascistic technology, to truly rise against it, we have to do such things?
I mean, to actually take an effective stand, it would seem so, otherwise then, is it not being against AI "enough"?
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Quote:As it currently stands generative AI is a fascist technology and will be treated as such.
How does one oppose it when its forced into our lives then? Like say if the doctor you see has a policy of scribing with AI. Should we avoid seeing medical professionals out of principle? To me, to have then a principled *proper* stand, that has to be the case?
Which to me, is a real case. Health professionals here often notetake without any sayso leaving me going "oooooh...." when it happens. It happens completely routine with them, here its standardised.
Seriously, I want to know where the line is drawn. I am sure we can all completely agree where the line is drawn with creative mediums such as with demos, but where is the line drawn when it comes out to actually living our lives on a daily basis? Should we avoid social groups or jobs that use AI in some form?
Because if it is a fascistic technology, to truly rise against it, we have to do such things?
I mean, to actually take an effective stand, it would seem so, otherwise then, is it not being against AI "enough"?
Don't pay for AI. That's all you can be expected to do at the consumer level.
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I am sure we can all completely agree where the line is drawn with creative mediums such as with demos
I don't think we can. I don't need to use AI to make a demo. I want to use AI to make demo's. I want my toolchain to take in to account the state of the machine for my code and roll optimizations for my specific execution environment not just my target CPU. I built my on tools to do this, and I will use them.
I can't understand what's wrong with that. A lot of this feels like the same gatekeeping and elitist bullshit that has always been in the scene.
It's arrogant to assume you know how AI is going to effect people and outrageous to demand others conform to a point of view. That's actual fascism.
I wish AI was just the progression from Software Rendering to GPUs or something. Then it would be this thing that affect how we do things in some niche category, but also you'd still need to learn a lot in GPU world. The idea guys just still couldn't make it. But unfortunatelly this AI is like the tool to end all tools. If you can call it a tool. It's like affecting everything everywhere and trivialiazing everything that now idea guys with zero skills can produce pretty convincing images, music, code, even low level code. I mean, you can see the signs that something is AI and we call it slop (and what if it progresses and it's indistinguisable) but now the idea guy can reverse engineer/report an old game to some other platform by vibe coding while he is sleeping, this never has happened with any progression before from assembly to compilers, software render to GPU, etc.. this is a different kind of beast. That's why everyone is angry and rightly so.
I mean, how do you even know in coding if someone vibe coded, AI assisted, or anything. AI assistance might be ok to me. But "hey I have zero skills, I wouldn't be either way able to write a single hello-world and I just one-shooted SM64 into Sega Mega Drive in my sleep"? It destroys all reason to create or we can simply just ignore and create our own stuff like we always did.
I expect we fight about this for the incoming 3-5 years, because this is way way worse than the petty "GPU sucks, software rendering rules" of the past.
I mean, how do you even know in coding if someone vibe coded, AI assisted, or anything. AI assistance might be ok to me. But "hey I have zero skills, I wouldn't be either way able to write a single hello-world and I just one-shooted SM64 into Sega Mega Drive in my sleep"? It destroys all reason to create or we can simply just ignore and create our own stuff like we always did.
I expect we fight about this for the incoming 3-5 years, because this is way way worse than the petty "GPU sucks, software rendering rules" of the past.
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It's arrogant to assume you know how AI is going to effect people and outrageous to demand others conform to a point of view. That's actual fascism.
This (and the whole post this was a part of) is some of the stupidest shit i’ve read in a while. Also it comes straight from the rw-fash-techbro playbook, which doesn’t surprise me at all.
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I want to use AI to make demo's.
Then you will need to accept that some people will give your demos a thumbsdown and call it slop.
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That's actual fascism.
No. Just, no.
Yeah, do whatever you want and deal with the consequences. It’s this incessant whining for acceptance that’s the most annoying tbh.
Antifascists are the real fascists!
